OK, I enjoyed this read and I'm glad you stated that chatGPT had it's 'hand' in writing it (although had you not stated that, I'd never assume you didn't write it). Still scary somewhat, but you already and still know where my preferences are and that's about using your voice only. I've tried writing poetry but gave it up; while I had the desire to write it, I ended up being too critical of it and it all sounded pretentious to my eyes. I'm my worst critic as 'they' say. Like any art, I may not be able to do what other artists do, but I know what moves me in a profound way and what repels me as well. Same with poetry......my exhusband wrote poetry and I never liked it as it came off as pretentious, overly flowery, and trying too hard. Yet, a well known artist (my mentor), Bill Gersh, whose art I loved deeply, also wrote poems which I loved to read....as it was raw, honest, and his voice came through loud and clear. I DO understand the desire to clean things up via a "tool" such as chatCPT.....as the original words and concept are still your own. Makes me think about how when I wanted a professional pedestal attached to a piece or some welding done, I hired a professional person to do it for me as it made the art really look more stunning whereas without that important touch, I could've rigged up something myself with the tools I only had and the piece would work but lacked that special oomph that it needed. And I wasn't about to learn how to weld. Touche' Touchon! I'm mildly converted yet not 100% convinced, but you do make some excellent points and I have to pretty much acquiesce to your wisdom here. Thank you. I do wish more people would comment here as I'd love to get others perspective on this subject. I've been enjoying our discussions in this forum.
>>>I've tried writing poetry but gave it up; while I had the desire to write it, I ended up being too critical of it and it all sounded pretentious to my eyes. I'm my worst critic as 'they' say.<<<
I am exactly the same way. That is what I meant - and you asked about - when I said 'I try to remove me from the process.' What I meant by that is exactly the avoidance of the above problem you mentioned. I was super self-critical and it was paralyzing. My way around it was to rethink my approach to tell myself "I am not going to try, in a straightforward way, to express myself because I am an idiot or at least I think I am. So how can I get around that? That was why I went into collage. I am just arranging found things. My voice is in the background as the collector, arranger, composer and systems designer. I am not directly speaking about me. I am playing with chance events and seeing what I can get out of it that seems interesting to me. I want to make things I have never seen before.
Then there is the experimentalness of what to put in the public and the market. How to talk about it, what is a possible narrative, what is the milieu I am working in, the zeitgeist, what is my response to those things if any? What communities am I focused on and interacting with and responding to? How am I orienting myself in the history of art? What is my world view? What is my working philosophy? My premise, my theory? So all of that together is mostly not about self-expression exactly. It is about questioning, experimenting, exploring possibilities and angles and perspectives.
In there someplace is my voice, my biases, my assumptions, my limitations just by how I ask the questions to myself and how I respond to things. I am trying to get to a deeper thing than I can be as 'myself'. I am always trying to interact with that deeper thing which mostly requires me to be empty and neutral and even selfless while I am working. So, what self would I be expressing? I talk about that here: https://www.touchonian.com/p/creative-selflessness
You explained it all perfectly in this post and in that other article you gave the link to at the end of this. I doubt we'll ever get rid of the "I", the self when producing/creating as it's so much a part of what we make. Yet, I love that lost of the self, or the unawareness of 'me' when I get into that Zone and just doing/making being mindful of what it is we're doing yet not really thinking if that makes sense. In the book "Blink" by Malcolm Gladwell, he gets into the place beyond knowing via education/learning where the true knowing, intuitive knowing as a result of many years of doing something to gain that 'beyond the beyond' knowing. I've often heard individuals call themselves 'conduits' as their creative art, be it great voice in singing, visual arts, music playing etc. comes from a higher place. This subject is so fascinating to me. And that quote "“No reward is greater than the doing.” writer Charles Bukowski fits so well. Thanks for sending that link.
OK, I enjoyed this read and I'm glad you stated that chatGPT had it's 'hand' in writing it (although had you not stated that, I'd never assume you didn't write it). Still scary somewhat, but you already and still know where my preferences are and that's about using your voice only. I've tried writing poetry but gave it up; while I had the desire to write it, I ended up being too critical of it and it all sounded pretentious to my eyes. I'm my worst critic as 'they' say. Like any art, I may not be able to do what other artists do, but I know what moves me in a profound way and what repels me as well. Same with poetry......my exhusband wrote poetry and I never liked it as it came off as pretentious, overly flowery, and trying too hard. Yet, a well known artist (my mentor), Bill Gersh, whose art I loved deeply, also wrote poems which I loved to read....as it was raw, honest, and his voice came through loud and clear. I DO understand the desire to clean things up via a "tool" such as chatCPT.....as the original words and concept are still your own. Makes me think about how when I wanted a professional pedestal attached to a piece or some welding done, I hired a professional person to do it for me as it made the art really look more stunning whereas without that important touch, I could've rigged up something myself with the tools I only had and the piece would work but lacked that special oomph that it needed. And I wasn't about to learn how to weld. Touche' Touchon! I'm mildly converted yet not 100% convinced, but you do make some excellent points and I have to pretty much acquiesce to your wisdom here. Thank you. I do wish more people would comment here as I'd love to get others perspective on this subject. I've been enjoying our discussions in this forum.
>>>I've tried writing poetry but gave it up; while I had the desire to write it, I ended up being too critical of it and it all sounded pretentious to my eyes. I'm my worst critic as 'they' say.<<<
I am exactly the same way. That is what I meant - and you asked about - when I said 'I try to remove me from the process.' What I meant by that is exactly the avoidance of the above problem you mentioned. I was super self-critical and it was paralyzing. My way around it was to rethink my approach to tell myself "I am not going to try, in a straightforward way, to express myself because I am an idiot or at least I think I am. So how can I get around that? That was why I went into collage. I am just arranging found things. My voice is in the background as the collector, arranger, composer and systems designer. I am not directly speaking about me. I am playing with chance events and seeing what I can get out of it that seems interesting to me. I want to make things I have never seen before.
Then there is the experimentalness of what to put in the public and the market. How to talk about it, what is a possible narrative, what is the milieu I am working in, the zeitgeist, what is my response to those things if any? What communities am I focused on and interacting with and responding to? How am I orienting myself in the history of art? What is my world view? What is my working philosophy? My premise, my theory? So all of that together is mostly not about self-expression exactly. It is about questioning, experimenting, exploring possibilities and angles and perspectives.
In there someplace is my voice, my biases, my assumptions, my limitations just by how I ask the questions to myself and how I respond to things. I am trying to get to a deeper thing than I can be as 'myself'. I am always trying to interact with that deeper thing which mostly requires me to be empty and neutral and even selfless while I am working. So, what self would I be expressing? I talk about that here: https://www.touchonian.com/p/creative-selflessness
You explained it all perfectly in this post and in that other article you gave the link to at the end of this. I doubt we'll ever get rid of the "I", the self when producing/creating as it's so much a part of what we make. Yet, I love that lost of the self, or the unawareness of 'me' when I get into that Zone and just doing/making being mindful of what it is we're doing yet not really thinking if that makes sense. In the book "Blink" by Malcolm Gladwell, he gets into the place beyond knowing via education/learning where the true knowing, intuitive knowing as a result of many years of doing something to gain that 'beyond the beyond' knowing. I've often heard individuals call themselves 'conduits' as their creative art, be it great voice in singing, visual arts, music playing etc. comes from a higher place. This subject is so fascinating to me. And that quote "“No reward is greater than the doing.” writer Charles Bukowski fits so well. Thanks for sending that link.